Amazon Branding Strategies from Top Sellers

Transcript

Colleen: All right. Well, we'll go ahead and get started, so thanks everybody for joining us today. We are here for a webinar on Amazon branding strategies from top sellers, and I have two of the top experts in the industry here joining us today, so I will introduce you to them. My name is Colleen Quattlebaum, and I'm the Director of Marketing here at eComEngine.

Colleen: Andrew Morgans is the founder of Marknology, which is a certified Amazon advertising partner, and full service agency for brands and manufacturers on the Amazon marketplace, and they've helped many brands, many companies launch many products on Amazon, with very impressive results. He's based in Kansas City, even though he said he's actually in Denver today traveling, but he's based at out of Kansas City, where he's also the founder of a company called Landlocked, which is an apparel company that really shows off a love of Kansas City, with some really cool t-shirt design and hats, so you'll have to check that out.

Colleen: And then Mina is joining us from Trivium Group. He's based in Marina del Rey, California, where it's sunny, like 364 days a year. But Mina is a multiple seven figure seller in the supplement industry, so a very top seller in a difficult category that has a lot of competition. He has a background in chemistry and chemical engineering, and that passion for supplements, as well as his expertise with PPC has really helped him to crush the competition on Amazon. And so, he's definitely our Amazon PPC expert, and he's also the founder of PPC University.

Colleen: So, we're really thrilled to have both of these awesome experts with us today, and here's just a few of the things that they'll be talking about. Some of the things that they're going to cover is why smart branding is critical to your success on Amazon, what works, what doesn't, and they'll have some stories to share from some customers that they've worked with, and how to leverage Amazon PPC to help build your brand, and they'll give you some actionable strategies that you can walk away with today to help you improve your conversion rate, along with many tips all throughout this webinar. So, with that being said, I will turn it over to Andrew. So, thank you.

Andrew: Thank you, Colleen, for the awesome introduction as always. We were talking before the show got started, just the first time we met, I think it's been five or six years ago, and it's just been quite the journey in the industry, meeting Mina, both you guys invited me to this webinar. I got excited being able to partner up with Mina to really talk about the real basics, and it's basic, but it's also complicated when you're pulling it off, and it's how to make it simple, but also attainable to sellers or brands trying to build.

Andrew: So, what we really wanted to do today was something unique, and it was kind of repurposing the conversation I had at Prosper with a little twist for you guys, but just about building your brand, and I'm going to keep it short, because I want to close up the webinar, obviously we're going to pass back to Mina to say, "Hey, these are the things you're doing to build your brand, your content, your visuals, your image, your consistency, and then this is how you go out there and get sales, what kind of goals you should be looking at, KPIs, how to stay organized."

Andrew: So, we have a lot of information for you guys today. I have a tendency to be long-winded, and I promised the team I wouldn't be, so I'm going to move quickly as we go. Use the chat for follow-up questions, or you can obviously reach out to any of us afterwards individually to get more clarity on any subject, but we're going to get right after it, just to make best use of the time. We have a Q&A at the end, so for everyone that's tuned in, I see quite a few participants already, would love to have your questions when we get to the Q&A, so we can just get all of you guys some value today, and we really want to bring the heat.

Andrew: So without further ado, Marknology, who am I? What have I started? What are we about? Marknology, one, it was me trying to save a few dollars, a few pennies when I was starting out as a young entrepreneur and created my company. Marknology was a word that didn't exist, so I got a cheap domain, but really my thinking behind it, the cleverness is e-commerce, whether we're talking Amazon or e-commerce as a whole, sits in kind of the middle of you have marketing and technology on either side. And so, you have to be creative, you have to know how to market, you have to know how to sell, you also have to be proficient and embrace technology, whether it's the Amazon marketplace, whether it's eCommerce, web, social, Calendly apps, Gmail calendar. eCommerce sits in the middle of being able to utilize both of these, and I think it's super important that as a company, you embrace what's kind of there.

Andrew: So, this is something that's resounding. I have had so many conversations in the last 11 years of being in the Amazon space that are just fearful about Amazon, fearful about their branding, fearful about people taking their products. "We've always sold wholesale, we've always done arbitrage, these photos always did good for us, this PPC strategy always worked for us." It's only three or four years ago that PPC was a lot easier than it was today, and now it's gotten harder. Whatever you did then, you can't do now. We have to adjust, we have to keep thinking critically and innovative.

Andrew: So, this is a mantra that we preach, not just at Marknology, but to our clients everywhere, "What got us here, won't get us there," is something I preach to myself. What I did four or five years ago isn't something necessarily that I can do exactly the same today. I might need new strategies, I might need to look at things differently. So, always try to have an open mind when it comes to your creative, your content, your story, how to be innovative and how to be fresh.

Andrew: So, let's talk about just a few of the basics of where branding exists. Branding and brand is something that everyone seems to have a definition for, everyone seems to have an interpretation, but what is it really? So, branding can exist in your personal brand, companies have branding, places. I've got an example of Andrew Morgans down here, the Watch Me Work, that's a personal brand thing. We have Waggedy here, where it's a pet supplement brand. We have Arrojo, this is a client of ours in New York. Their actual retail space is branded, and they've got their logos and their colors. And so, branding is really something that can translate across different platforms and different mediums, and so, you really have to understand how you're using it for yourself and in your business. There's Andrew that's branded to an extent, and then there's Marknology, the bigger umbrella of what I'm creating and what I'm a part of. They both have their own place.

Andrew: So, let branding do the heavy lifting. What do I mean by this? And I'm just talking to you guys about principles and what branding can do. So, let branding do the heavy lifting, whenever we talk about PPC and converting traffic, and getting sessions to listings, and conversion rate on those ads, it can be hard to sell, let's say, a higher price point item with just PPC, without great branding. So, great branding can talk to the customers, tell the story of the product that says, "Hey, we're trustworthy. We're worth this higher price point. We have a quality product, we're consistent, we're popular. This is the value. We have value in what we're selling." Good branding, good images, good storytelling can do a lot of the heavy lifting.

Andrew: A lot of times, PPC at the beginning is just simply telling you that your branding is not good enough, and you need to go back to the drawing board and you need to work on your content, you need to work on your SEO, because we're getting in front of customers, they're seeing our product and either they're not trusting us, they don't understand why they're going to pay more for our item, et cetera, et cetera. So, PPC is really the validating tool from beginning to end, when it comes to selling products.

Andrew: Mina, I'm going to pause right there. I know I'm putting you on the spot, but just talking about that heavy lifting and how branding and content can have such a big factor or an effect on selling products, like the PPC part is influenced so much more by that. What do you have to say to that?

Mina: Yeah. So, we'll notice with much stronger branded, and in a second, I'm going to talk about instead of branding being siloed and PPC being siloed, and then when you think of PPC, you think of campaigns and bids, and you think of branding as the look and that, how do they actually play together in a data-driven approach? And so, I'll cover that, but what we've seen is the stronger the brand, number one, it's a lot less price sensitive. So, when your competitors are lowering their price by a dollar you're not impacted significantly, because people are appreciating that it's a brand. And I think a good analogy, a difference between a brand and a product on Amazon, is like the difference between a home and an Airbnb, right? When it's a home, you feel like you belong to it. If it's an Airbnb or a hotel room, you're just using it, you're never going to remember it, you're going to forget about it. It's the same thing.

Mina: And so, that's the first thing we've noticed. The second thing is good branding really allows us to spend more money on ads. There's a huge problem, is sometimes as you increase your spend on ads, you immediately notice that your profit is dropping, and it happens because as soon as you try and go broad, you're showing up in different places, and then you start losing because you're not standing out enough, especially when you go broader. With branding, we've seen that have a huge impact.

Mina: And then finally, I've covered really well branded products, I've covered just kind of like, this is just a good product on Amazon, on the shelf, you have no idea who sells it, and the new-to-brand brand and the recurring purchase is massive. Some of the really strong branded ones, it's hard to even get new-to-brand people in, because their existing customer base is so large that you just keep repurchasing. So branding can do a lot, especially, it's not just the look of it, but I think Andrew's going to explain that branding goes well beyond just what your packaging looks like.

Andrew: No, thank you, Mina. All valuable points, and I just wanted to, if anything, with this webinar, really convey to our audience that it's on Amazon, eCommerce, wherever you are, it's everything working together. These aren't things that are seen in a silo, they all affect each other, and they all play a part. So, branding affects PPC, PPC affects branding, the strategies that we're implementing, they all have an effect.

Andrew: So, let's keep it rolling. I think one thing that's important that I'm trying to convey is expectation management, to people that are thinking and branding that are focusing on this. When you're approaching the subject of branding, this is a marathon, not a sprint. You're innovating, you're coming out with some messaging, you're coming out with photos or a logo, or a new look for your products. You're in it for the long haul, so it's not about being perfect with that launch, it's not about being perfect when you release or you come out with a new product, or a new look and feel.

Andrew: Just think about it like, "I'm in it for the long haul. I'm going to improve over time. I'm going to stay consistent over time. It's not about being perfect," and it's just about getting better every quarter, every day, every week, every month. You're just trying to get better where you can, and when you can. For the longest time, Marknology was a business growing by word of mouth. I didn't have amazing branding or content going out on every channel getting distributed. So, there's always somewhere to start. Think about it in the long game, versus just this arrival you get at, where your branding is just done.

Andrew: Second would be like you get what you pay for. If you go have your sister's friend's brother do your photos for $5, you're going to get what you pay for, right? Versus getting an expert that's going to create your story from your photos, and your graphics, and your A+, if we're talking Amazon, all the things of your listing where this is your story, this is your passion, this is literally maybe your lifeline or your livelihood for your family and what you're building or your future. Would you put cheap breaks on your car? So, think about that in the same aspect, the importance of that, and I think that trust factor we're talking about, that consistency factor, really, really comes through on content and creative.

Andrew: So you get what you pay for, and then you don't know what you don't know. That's something that all of us as entrepreneurs, business owners, we learn over time is that there's a lot that we don't know, and as we learn more, it seems like there's even more that we don't know, and that's that's almost like just a mind bomb in regards to accepting that, that you're like, "Wow, I don't know what I don't know." But to speak about branding or speak about PPC as absolutes, when it's something that you haven't really tried effectively, you might even say, "Hey, I've paid three people to help me with branding," that doesn't mean they did it right. I'll be honest. You don't know what you don't know. So, keep trying to learn, keep having an open mind, and have an expectation of, "I don't know, let's test and let's see what happens."

Andrew: This one's a quick one, no branding is bad. Okay? So, the absence of anything is bad, and it shows. I'm going to keep it moving. This one, this was a branding gone bad, and I wanted to just share, this was before we got this product, and the one on the right is actually the older one, and the one on the left is the newer one, and a bunch of doctors stopped taking in this product, whenever he switches branding. The customers didn't like it, it didn't feel as scientific, they didn't trust it, they're like, "We don't know what we're getting." Now, mind you, that's not my opinion, but that's the opinion of doctors and his market that he was selling to. And so, we learned a valuable lesson on this one, that you can make branding changes, and they don't have a great effect, and that's why it's a marathon. It's not about being perfect, it's about trying things, adjusting, pivoting, being able to make changes based on how people respond to what we're putting out there.

Andrew: Here's another quick, bad example. This is an A+ page, for anyone that doesn't know. This image in the middle, it's full of text. Some people just say, "Hey, having something in there is great." No, that's not the case, honestly. We are American consumers, Western consumers, we look at pictures, we're not reading all of this content. So, you're talking about kids, you're talking about toys. This image could be much better. The one on the right, we got different kinds of fonts. We have what looks like hyperlinks in here, and this is a graphic on Amazon, just not done well.

Andrew: Let's look at one that is done well. I like to give visuals, show a good story, product story, showing in the same visuals, these are the same visuals that we get, or the same opportunities that we get on Amazon. One of them is blended, perfect visual, it's textured. If you know anything about beauty, the beauty category is like texture is everything. So, we're showing texture in these photos, we don't have too much font everywhere. We're speaking specifically to the values of product and the features.

Andrew: So, perfection? No. Can you tell the difference in these products here, what we're looking at, and then something that's visually appealing here? And when you're talking about these are products that are supposed to make the consumer feel more beautiful, feel more put together, feel a certain type of way, it evokes an emotion, and so, you want visuals, you want content, you want images and graphics that are conveying that same emotion, "You're going to be beautiful. This is what it's going to look like. We're going to make sure you get the right product. Look at the different skin types that we're covering, so we can match you perfectly. This is going to be just what you need." So, completely different message being translated there.

Andrew: Another one here. It doesn't have to be the same colors, right? This is a brand where they've got different flavors, different scents. You can see it change colors, it changes looks a little bit, but it still has consistency across the different product lines that you can tell, "Hey, this belongs to the same company, there's consistency across their products." What do I feel? I feel trust. I feel trust, and it also looks like it's fruity, and it looks clean, and it looks inviting, and that's the kind of product we're trying to sell. So, these are some of the things that are conveyed just through good branding and good content, just through images and visually, like subconsciously, and then you say, "Okay, why do I need to buy this product?" And maybe you go to the reviews, or you go to the price, or you go to anything else, but it starts with that visual connection.

Andrew: This is an example of a product that from start to finish, while it's just a boring product in a lot of ways, it's a cleaning product for pet waste or smells, it's got a simple front, a simple back. How do you bring that to life? How do you talk about the values? Why does the customer need this product? Why should someone pay the price of this product? Is this product trustworthy? So we're covering all of the values of what it brings, we're covering the different ways to use it. We've got the same look, feel, colors across the different listing graphics. I'm just trying to show you guys examples of it done in a better way, so you can say, "Hey, how does mine match up to this, if this is what brands are doing?", whether it's in your category or not. I think it's easy to frame a simple product, and trying to bring it to life with a story.

Andrew: Okay, this is a lot. This is another story quickly, and I want to just give Mina a lot of time and some time with our Q&A, and he can rehash some of this, but this is a product where you're like, "I don't have a product that's that exciting. It looks like everybody else. I'm trying to make a brand of it. I'm trying to tell a story and have some consistency across my products, but I'm struggling, Drew. I don't know what to do. It feels like I have products that they're not that easy. It's a scientific cleaning product with just a label on the back. What do we do?"

Andrew: Well, this is one that the team is very much responsible for. I had the initial ideas, I'm going to take a little bit of credit, and the team ran with it, but we had this product, we were really trying to be outside the box. It's this footrest, it goes under your desk, under your chair when you're working, and it helps you ergonomically with your feet, your legs, helps you get them up. It's honestly a great product, and we feel like we have a great product, like it's better than what else is out there.

Andrew: Well, if you look on Amazon, everybody's got products of just feet sitting on one of these footrests, and I wanted to create some content that was engaging, that made someone want to click and view a little bit more and be like, "What is it about this product?" So, we decided to come up with the Comfort HERO. So, we created this little, this graphic guy that's engaging, he's the hero of comfort, and this is where we're starting with this brand, this story, but it's literally a way of taking a simple product that's been done a bunch of times by other people, and bringing it to life with an outside the box idea about storytelling.

Andrew: So, and this is where you're like, "Okay, so what's your methodology for Amazon? How do you do this?" It's A/B tests. Like I said, marathon, not a sprint. You're testing stuff all the time. Do your research, look around at competitors, look at people in your space, look at people outside your space. Look in the supplement space, the supplement space is killing it compared to some other categories. Look over there, see what the best people are doing. Time and experience. Don't be upset with yourself or negative about where you're going with your brand or your products, if you haven't spent time gaining experience, and you need time to gain that.

Andrew: So, have that expectation that it takes time to build a brand. It doesn't matter if you have $100 million, anyone that puts out a brand that's only been out a month it's not a well trusted brand, I wouldn't say it has branding in place, it's starting, and it has a good start, but it takes time to get branding, right? So, focus on story, focus on communicating your product value, or the reason why you started the company. You have to be authentic. If you're selling a crap product, get out of the branding game. So, be authentic about what you're selling.

Andrew: Trust the data. Mina's going to talk to you about data, but PPC is everything. Everything I'm talking about is the setup, and then the PPC validates what we're trying. It's our A/B testing. It tells us what's working and what's not working, "What keywords should we focus on? What are customers not responding to? Are we getting new customers? Are we just capturing old customers?" Data is the truth that you can trust when you're trying all these things, PPC then comes back and gives you the answers based on what you're trying.

Andrew: And then solicit refinement, go out there and get surveys, ask people. Hey, you don't know what you don't know, so go and ask Mina, "Hey, how's my PPC looking? Do you think I have it set up right? Could I get more out of this? What should I be doing? Is my branding coming across straightforward? Is the communication direct and authentic? Do people understand what I'm selling?" People get so attached to the product, but they really need to be comfortable going there and saying, "Hey, this is my product, here's my PDP page. Here's my A+ page. Is it clear what I'm selling, and is it clear why you should buy it from me, and is it clear what value the customer's going to get from buying it?" Those are a couple questions you could ask friends, family, strangers, and get some honest feedback. Take that feedback, go back to step one, A/B test something else.So, those are things we're doing all the time with our main hero images or different things like that. We're just trying out different stuff.

Andrew: So, a couple before and afters. I know these slides will be available, but for example, a lot of text on the left side. This is a brand I launched from scratch. That's our work on the left side. This is another brand we didn't mention. We mentioned Landlocked, but this is a brand that I own as well. The content on the left, real photos, real dogs, really talking about good content about the listing and the product. We just have a ton of text. This look on the right side, after about two years in business, we came back to the drawing board and we said, "Hey, we want to look a little bit more inviting. We want to look a little bit more engaging. Let's bring some of the actual dogs we have in the Waggedy family now to the picture," and hopefully a picture's worth a thousand words here to see the difference in how that visually communicates to people.

Andrew: So, I went fast because I feel like in the Q&A, we can cover whatever, and I wanted to give Mina enough time to really dig into this. I saw his slides, he has a ton of great value. I started in PPC. I've been in this space 11 years. I started out in PPC, I realized that this branding and content thing was so, so important. It could give me even more truth to the content and the branding stuff I'm doing. The PPC gives me the truth. And so, I focus and I'm teaching and I'm educating on branding, but this PPC thing is extremely important, and is the other side of the coin to building your brand. So, without further ado, I'm passing to Mina. I hope that wasn't too much, and I didn't go too fast.

Colleen: And actually, that was great, and before we flip over to Mina, we do have just a couple questions, if we can address those. One is, "Your best way to structure the story brand and your tool for A/B tests, so what tools do you recommend you use for A/B testing these image?"

Andrew: Yeah, so, there's tools like PickFu to give them a plug, a partner plug. PickFu is a software you can go on and for a few dollars, run your images by a bunch of different Amazon customers that you think are your customer segment, get their feedback, get their opinion. Try to be unemotionally attached to that feedback, and that's hard for creators, but once you become kind of like you're running a lot of projects, that's one thing I have a benefit to that others don't, is as an agency, we're kind of unemotionally attached and we can give neutral feedback. So, PickFu, and another one would be Amazon Experiments, which is a newer thing you can try in A+, and you have to tell Amazon why you want to try this, and have a real reason, but those are two practical suggestions there.

Colleen: Okay.

Mina: I want to add, because I also have a couple tools too. ProductPinion is one. So, I love PickFu, we're a partner, and I always told PickFu, I was like, "Okay, but what do I change? Where do I start?" And I'm sure, Andrew, you've gotten the same question before. And so, ProductPinion is just one step back where you can show your listing, and then people will give video feedback and say, "Well, I'm going to pick that one, because this one kind of looks like it could be made in China," or something, or "It could be that it's too expensive" or something, and then you can get that initial, "Okay, let's see if that's actually the issue, and then test it on PickFu A/B testing," and then from there you're like, "Okay, basically, that was the factor that was causing the issue."

Mina: And I know RankBell also now has a service where they'll do a full buyer journey, they'll document from buying your product to receiving it, and saying, "Here's our feedback. We didn't like this product because of this and that," or "I would've bought this other one." You can actually send them your product and someone else's product and say, "Yeah, we liked that other product because it made us feel like this was more doctor backed," or something, and that's where you can start your journey into, "What's actually wrong with my product?"

Andrew: Yeah. You got to start with you. It's your brand. And so, I buy a lot of products from competitors, not to trash them, not to leave bad reviews, not to sabotage, it's literally to say, "Hey, what can I learn from them and their product?" I read their reviews, I'm combining their reviews to see what kind of feedback they get, positive and negative, to be like, "How can we improve?" What other time in history have we ever had real-time feedback on how customers are accepting our products? So, if you embrace that feedback loop, the data is truth, and it's like unlimited potential to dial in your product, to just get it better, and better, and better. So, if you don't understand what a good story is, if you don't understand what a good brand is, you need to go do some testing and experimenting yourself.

Andrew: Whenever I got into the Airbnb business, which is something we talked about, but I run a bunch of Airbnbs, I needed to go stay at some Airbnbs to get a handle on how the good ones ran it. What did a good Airbnb look like? How did it feel? What did they include? What did they not? What were the photos like? What amenities did they include? These are the same things you can do when you order products, and I guess the thing I would say there is when you're ordering those products, don't just order your competitors. Instead, pay attention to when you're ordering any products off of Amazon and say, "Hey, what did I love about this product when I got it, and what was I just like 'Eh' about?" And those are what come up with your tests to try, is that. So, Mina, Colleen, is there more questions? I'm sorry.

Colleen: Oh, just one other that I'll just clarify. Robert is asking, "Your Amazon advertising strategy and tools can vary based on what your goals are and what stage your brand is in. What part of the funnel are you all focused on today?" And I think it's everywhere. You said whether you're launching a product, or with Waggedy, it had already been around for a few years, and you're constantly improving, so I think it's always evolving.

Andrew: I'll just speak to that a little bit, because I think when I had that slide that said what got us here, what we did to get us here, won't get us there, that's the thinking there, is that at first, Institute of Pet Nutrition, which is now Waggedy, was, "Let's get product launched. Let's start understanding how customers are responding." It was a learning phase. Well, then we switched it up, and we did something else. So, on the PPC side, you can be in a launch phase, "Let's go get data. Let's understand what keywords drive our sales. Let's figure out if our listing, our PDP pages look good." And then you might switch to, "Okay, now we just want to keep nurturing our customers. We want to grow, but 20% of our budget for this SKU or this ASIN is about getting new traffic, the other 80% is about maintaining and having a good profitability," so allow yourself that flexibility to adjust your tactics.

Andrew: So, be intentional about one, I will say that, but then, "Okay, we've got that, we want to try something else," and then switching. Don't give in, it's a marathon. Don't give in too quick. I know it sounds complicated, but it's like, "Okay, we want to learn what keywords work for us." Focus on that, then switch to something else, and keep switching until you just keep optimizing the different areas of your business. But that's the one thing that I'm still trying to learn, even as a founder entrepreneur is, "Man, I needed to do this the last two years. Is it time now to adjust the way I'm doing things, to get to the next level?" Trying to figure out that exact sweet spot is easier said than done, but that's what we're all trying to do.

Mina: Awesome. Awesome. All right. This was cool. Andrew, I'm going to ask for one thing, we'll keep it at the end, but just this is kind of what I want, but branding is amazing, but someone like me, I'm not on the creative side, I'd be a little bit overwhelmed. Can you, at the end, give us three things, actionable, simple? Like if I were to go home now and say, "What are three things I could do?" Because when I was looking at that women's makeup stuff, I was like, "Man, this is beautiful." I felt something, I felt a connection. I was like, "I've never been able to achieve that in my own product." So, if you could give us like three things we can do and start on, that would be amazing.

Andrew: Cool. Then we'll circle back to that, and I'll be thinking about three great tips.

Mina: Perfect. Perfect. Okay, cool. So, we'll jump into the PPC side. The reason that I wanted to do this with Andrew so much is because it's so connected, branding, but also kind of your conversion rate, right? It's so connected to PPC, and people sometimes they silo it and they say, "PPC is PPC, your branding and your images are your branding and your images, and then your finances are your finances, your supply chains are your supply chains." But the thing is, the businesses, the whole thing is one living thing, and one of the most closely connected things to PPC is branding, because it affects the conversion rate and the click-through rate so much, and it affects repeat purchase so much, if your product is kind of a consumer product, that it really can make or break PPC.

Mina: And so, I wanted Andrew to cover this so you understand that, "Okay, we have to be working on that side, not just on this side." PPC can send traffic to a listing, PPC can bring people, that's all it can do. You're going around and you're saying, "Hey, I'll pay you a dollar to come to my store. Hey, I'll pay you $2 to come to my store." That's all you can do with PPC. You're basically having a guy that pulls these people into your store. Once they're in your store, if they look at the products and they're like, "Oh man, this store smells bad, the product's all dusty," it's not going to work. And so, that's why we're so closely related, and it was perfect everything Andrew covered because that's on the conversion side. So, I'm going to share who I am, but I'm also now going to cover everything that he's doing, how to track it, and then how to effectively implement it when it comes to PPC, and bridging the gap between "This is my listing, and this is PPC,' because it's all one thing. So, my name's Mina.

Andrew: Mina.

Mina: What's up?

Andrew: I'm in charge of slides, so we're a tag team here. You just tell me when we need to move forward, and I got you.

Mina: Perfect. Got it. Love it. Okay. So, my name is Mina Elias. I'm a chemical engineer by trade, worked in corporate for five years. I worked in medical devices, worked in manufacturing of radiant heating and cooling, I did a bunch of stuff, and then in 2018, I decided to follow my passion, which is in supplements. So, I've been fighting MMA since 2013, and I know that I could be the best supplement formulator in the world, so I decided to create an electrolyte powder that helped me perform better at the gym. I called it HRDWRK, it was initially called Hydrolyte, and then I got sued because the name is too close to another electrolyte powder.

Mina: But I created this product superior to all other electrolyte powders on the market, because it had much higher sodium and potassium magnesium, and it had no sugar at all. I was using amino acids like taurine to enhance performance, and enhance absorption. So, I created that supplement brand, and the only way that I could succeed on Amazon, I didn't have the resources of doing good branding, and so, I really failed hard there, and I wish I had met someone like Andrew earlier, but I didn't. And so-

Andrew: I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready either, so.

Mina: ... I really needed to nail my ads, because Liquid I.V., and Ultima, and those big, big guys in the electrolyte category, they were just spending millions because they had millions. Skratch Labs, at that point, was also a six or $7 million brand. So, they were winning on everything and I couldn't compete, and I didn't have money. I started my business on a $500 credit card limit. And so, I said, "Okay, where are all the opportunities?" Right? "What about all of the long, long, long tail keywords?" And I developed a strategy that it was not just like a hack, I was really testing every single keyword out possible, but I also developed a really tight strategy on if anything is not profitable, cut it down, if anything is profitable, scale it up.

Mina: And then people started asking for a lot more information, I created the PPC University, and then the brand grew and scaled on Amazon, and in early 2021, after I was hired for a project by a big aggregator to build their in-house team, it turns out that I was better than a lot of the agencies that they hired. And so, I decided that this is something I'm really passionate about, I'm good, I can make a lot of impact, and it also is a better personality fit. I'm super extroverted, I love going to conferences and meeting people, helping people. So, we started the agency, and we're now an Amazon advertising partner, so we fully integrate with your team. It's not an account manager, it's the whole team, the analyst, the strategist, the head of advertising, me, and we just collaborate to drive sales on Amazon super profitably. Next slide.

Andrew: Yeah. I want to jump in here just real quick, Mina, because I love that we're doing this together, and I have yet to really see a branding and PPC, that's why Marknology exists, is that full service look. And so, to me, this is just right up my alley, and I want to make sure our listeners really get that. I'm a bootstrapped entrepreneur as well, didn't have budget, didn't have creative. I got opportunities on the services side to work with some big brands like Adidas and different things like that, that had great content that I got a glimpse of what that could do, what good branding could do.

Andrew: And so, I was hooked early because I got a taste of it, but honestly, it was that search for opportunities, when I had brands with no budget, I haven't had the biggest brands in the world, that's not what I sharpened my teeth on. So, it was small brands that had to be creative, had to be outside the box, had small budgets, we had to use every keyword possible. And so, I went from PPC, as PPC costs go up, it was like, "Okay, now how else? What's another opportunity we can do to help them stand out and look so much better?" We can't beat China pricing a lot of times, so it was like, "Okay, what can we do? Well, we can localize. We can improve branding. We can improve content."

Andrew: So, it was always this chase of opportunities that kind of got us here, and got me learning this on the same side as PPC. So, just wanted to say at the same time while PPC was your opportunity, the creative, and graphics, and content was something else that we could control that was like, if we can get this right, it makes us able to compete with the big guys out there. So, next slide. Back to you.

Mina: Yeah. So, traffic and conversions, that's all it is, right? It's a very simple equation. You can bring people to your listing, and then your listing does the work. And so, it's very important to understand that there is a balance of both. If you're looking at your PPC and you're looking at your ACoS, you're not looking at the full picture. You should be looking at your PPC in a very specific way, your ad spend and your sessions, and then your cost per session.

Mina: So, the only thing your ad spend is responsible for is increasing your sessions. That's it. You're spending more money, you're getting more people into the listing. Your cost per session is supposed to go down. The more that you drop that cost per session, the cheaper it is to drive traffic. Also, if you rank organically through PPC, then you're bringing people into your listing for free because it's organic, and that's again, dropping your cost of every single visitor.

Mina: And so, that's the only mechanics of PPC. You're increasing your sessions, you're dropping your cost for every single session, and then the entire rest of that all falls on conversion. Your click-through rate and your conversion rate are going to make a huge difference, so that's why it's very important to focus on branding. Next slide.

Andrew: Mina, can you just, in case we have people that don't understand the terminology so much, explain sessions?

Mina: It's a unique visitor, unique Amazon account, visiting your listing is a session. So, when I log into my Amazon where I buy all of my stuff, that's one session. Now, if I click on five of your ads and you get five clicks that you pay for, but it's still Mina, it's one session, that's it. But if Mina and Andrew click, that's two sessions.

Mina: So, the equation, it's pretty simple. There's the cost of traffic that plays into the equation. Remember, we're just trying to reduce that number as much as possible. Conversion, the higher the conversion rate for the same ad spend, you're going to convert and make more money. And so, that's where your listing images, your pricing, all of that stuff comes into play. You need clicks, this is a very important one. Not a lot of people talk about this, but if your ads are not optimized where you have your regular sponsored products, you have your organic, you have headline search ads, which is a sponsored brand, and then you have a video, you can have the same session, the same person clicking on multiple ads, causing you to spend a lot more money, and it's the same person. Remember, we want to reduce that cost of bringing one person into your listing, and then from there, the higher the conversion rate, the more they're going to convert, so you end up with profit at the end. Next slide.

Mina: So, here's a simple equation, right? And a lot of times, people come to me and they're like, "We're struggling with PPC. It's never been the same," and I'm like, "It's a simple equation." And this, by the way, applies here, it applies on Facebook, I just did it with Facebook ads too, and Google, and any sort of ads. It's a funnel. Number one, you're spending money, $6,000, you're getting 1.2 million impressions. Great. How can we increase the number of sessions based on those impressions? Well, your click-through rate, you have a 0.35 click-through rate, means you have 4,200 clicks, and out of the 4,200 clicks, you have 1,400 unique sessions. And so, if you improve your click-to-session ratio, you increase the number of sessions coming in. If you increase your click-through rate, you increase the number of sessions coming in.

Mina: So, those are two areas where you can... This is an Excel spreadsheet, so you can go in, you can change those numbers right there, and you can say, "Okay, if I increase my click-through rate from 0.35, if I have a really nice image and it goes up to 0.45, a really nice main image, or if I tweak my price, drop it, or if I go from a four star rating to a four and a half star rating," that 0.35, just by going to 0.45, you can go from 1,400 sessions to 2,000 sessions, and that change will dramatically increase your sales, right? And so, sometimes it's the click-through rate, so play around with that.

Mina: Your click-to-sessions ratio, if that number is not close to one, if you're getting the same people clicking on multiple ads, you have some sort of issue. If you have the same people who are going to go into organic, click on your ads, you're showing your ads in the wrong places. Stop showing them where you're ranked number one organically or ranked number three organically, because you're already going to get the click, unless you can always take it down, and if you notice when you take it down, you significantly lose sales, bring it back up. Everything is testing here.

Mina: Then look at your conversion rate. Your conversion rate, if you take it from 29%, take it to 35%. There you go. You went from 12,000 to 14,700, just by increasing the conversion rate 6%. Not a huge difference, but it makes a lot in terms of the sales. And then finally, the final thing that you can do is cut down the PPC spend from 6,000 into 4,000, to achieve the same result. Now, we talked about so many different things, only one of them was PPC related. And so, that kind of will speak to the impact of your click-through rate and your conversion rate, and all of that stuff, is there's so many parts of the funnel, right? People see you, and then they decide to click on you. That's one part of the funnel where you can improve, and then when they're in there, you can improve your conversion, that's another part, and then the final thing is the PPC. Sure, instead of spending $3 to bring that person in, you can spend $2, right? But it's only so much that you can do. So, let's go to the next slide.

Andrew: Okay. This, we could stop the whole presentation right here. This is the gold, guys. I'm telling you, and he went fast, but what he's trying to say is that ACoS and sales can't be the only thing you're focusing on. The data is telling you so much. Data is truth. He didn't know I was going to have that slide, but that was one of my main points, is data is truth, we can trust the data. That's why we get so confident when we're giving advice as consultants or agents, the owners in this space, and we're saying, "Hey, this is what we need to focus on." It might not say, "Hey, I know exactly what we need to do to make that happen," but the data is telling me that we have a problem here.

Andrew: It's just like you go to a car mechanic and you plug in the computer, and then it says, "Engine problem," or it says whatever it's telling you now, everything's electronic, but it's telling you where the problem is, you still have to go solve the problem, but the PPC is what validates the branding, the SEO, the organic, everything, guys. So, super, super important to make sure you're not just automating this stuff, because automation alone, without a human looking at it, for example, isn't going to interpret these things to tell you where you need to focus.

Andrew: And I hope it's okay I take a few minutes here, but I think this is just absolute gold, and it's still something that even we're trying to learn even today, but that's why I focus so much on reporting and really trying to create value for our clients, because I'm like, guys, there's a story that's being told in our data that will tell us everything to focus on, and half the time, being entrepreneur or an Amazon seller, a business owner is, "What should I focus on? What should I prioritize? What should I be doing today? How do I get better? I just want to know what to work on, and then I'll go work on it." I think most people are like that, and you have to get an understanding around this to help you do that, or at least this can really help that.

Andrew: One thing I was going to say, the click-through rate, which is the CTR for anyone looking here, one thing I've noticed when I'm trying to be... Because I work with a lot of brands with small PPC budgets, and so, it becomes, "Look, if I can't get more PPC budget, I'm going to convert more sales. Let's go make the graphics and storytelling do much better." It's trying to get more targeted with the keywords. Instead of being broad, get very, very specific where the image you're going to show them is exactly what they're searching, and you'll see click-through rate go up. That's one of the biggest things I see is the match type, or that they're going too broad. So, if anyone, I don't know if you can see the screenshots, you guys can get these slides after, but if you guys focus on this for the next two quarters, three quarters in the year, you guys would be doing yourselves a huge solid.

Mina: Yeah, yeah. Live demo of the equation, we can skip that one. I know we're a little bit short on time. So, this one is building the dashboard. Now, my biggest, biggest, biggest struggle ever was, I mean, yeah, I got really good at PPC, but I'm like, "Dude, why is it one day that my ad spend is $100 and I'm making $700 in sales, and then another day it's $100 and I make $350 in sales?" What changed? What changed day to day? The PPC is the same. And so, I said, "You know what? I need to take everything into account. I need to take in all of the different factors of the funnel."

Mina: And so, I started documenting PPC spend, PPC sales, total sales, the number of sessions coming in the conversion rate, the click-through rate, the cost per click and everything, and also the profit, and because sometimes ACoS could be 35, 40%, and you're starting to stress out. You're like, "Oh, we need our ACoS to be under 20%," but what if your profit is higher? What if your dollar amount of profit is higher? So, I said, "I don't want to have to go to Seller Central, look in business reports, and then go into Campaign Manager," so created a dashboard and this dashboard is beautiful, because everything that Andrew talked about, this is where you track it.

Mina: And you can see here every day, you can notice the trends, and instead of just documenting the data, break it up into civic seven week segments, because if Andrew right now said, "Hey man, I weigh 185." I'm like, "I have no idea what that means. Is that good, or is that bad?" But if he said, "Hey man, I weigh 185, and in the winter, I weigh 210," and I'm like, "Dude, good job. You lost a lot of weight." Not that you need to lose weight, but I'm just saying, now it makes sense, and the only thing that he said for it to make sense is, what was it in the past?

Mina: And so, looking at snapshots of data doesn't mean anything, because it's just numbers, but as soon as you have a reference point and you can say, "Two weeks ago we spent $45, last week, we spent 193, our sessions went up from 38 sessions to 60 sessions," there you go. Your PPC is working, great. How's our conversion rate? "Oh, it went from 110 down to 91." Okay. There's a slight bit of an issue there, but it just could be that because we're scaling, we're getting more people in, the conversion rate is naturally dropping. What about our click-through rate? "Yeah, our click-through rate went down too. It's about a 0.2%."

Mina: Okay, let's hold here. If we took my PPC spend, we took the sessions. We took the click-through rate and the conversion rate, is that going to inhibit us? Or if that click-through rate was 0.2, we took it up to 0.4, what is our sales going to be? "Oh, click-through, it is actually inhibiting us. We're spending more money, but if that number was a little bit better, okay, what are the factors that influence that number?" It's the main image, it's the price. Okay, easy. Let's test price. Quick test on price, didn't do much. Okay, let's work on the main image. You go in, you do a ProductPinion or whatever, "Hey guys, would you click on mine or would you click on this?" "Oh, I would click on this one, because it looks more legit, it looks more doctor, and that's cool." Rebrand, make it look like a doctor, test it, it looks good. New labels, get it up on Amazon, and then go from there.

Mina: So, that's kind of the way that we started. It stopped being like, "Okay, it's just PPC, it's just the conversion rate, it's this," the whole thing paints a picture. And then finally, the most important thing of everything is that dollar amount to profit. So, people are like, "What's a good ACoS? What's a good TACoS?" So I'm like, "I have no idea. It's not even a question that I even consider." What I'll consider is, how much are we spending now? What's our revenue, what's our profit? Let's double that spending, let's hopefully double the revenue, let's see what the profit is, let's cut down on all of the inefficient ad spend. Did our profits go up? If that went up, that's it. That's what I care about. I don't care what the ACoS is, I don't care what the TACoS is.

Mina: ACoS is a completely irrelevant number, because it takes into account PPC sales, and we've seen time and time again, I'll take my spend, the only thing that I'll do is change my PPC spend, and then my overall sales increase. It didn't happen magically. Okay? A lot of people say, "Oh the ACoS is high, it's the PPC," I'm like, but if you only change one factor and it's PPC, and the overall sales go up, what does that mean? It means that it's because of the PPC, that's it. It's a controlled experiment. And so, ACoS, we throw it out the window, TACoS is what matters, but then again, what's a good TACoS? Is it 10%, 15%, 20%? The only thing I can tell you is if your gross profit margin before advertising is 50%, please don't exceed a 50% TACoS, because that means you're going to lose money for every single sale. But anything from 5% to 30% is fair game, and the only way to identify what's the best is the dollar amount of profit.

Mina: So, let's try a 5% TACoS, let's start 10, 15, 20, 25. Where did we make the most dollar amount of profit? And one thing all of us business owners know, "Hey, I'm making $30,000 a month in revenue, and my profit margin's 37%." Oh, great. "Hey, I'm making 10 million a year in revenue, and my profit margin is 10%." Why is your profit margin so low? "Well, it's just sometimes it happens," but how much is he making? He's making $1 million at the end of the year. So, and you're making $10,000 or whatever, $100,000 dollars in profit by the end of the year. And so, that 10% versus 37% didn't really matter, right? Because at scale, things change. So, let's go to the next slide.

Andrew: Yeah. What got us here, won't get us there. You're trying to scale it, you got to accept different numbers, and I think one thing that Mina is saying that's like, I know I was moving fast on the earlier slides, but we talked about A/B testing, which is what he's saying. He's talking about trends over time, marathon, not a sprint, right? So, these are things that there's no way you have even a trend line, until you have time and experience and data, right? So, these are things that just by simply tracking it, and looking at it and saying, "Hey," asking critical questions and saying, "Why is this happening here? What could be affecting this?" You don't know what you don't know, so dig in and say, "Oh, this is something that's changed by engagement when they click on the photo." Well, that must mean your main image, and then now they're there, and the conversion rate's not there. What does that mean? "Oh, something between the price point, the images, the copy, something scared them off."

Mina: Something's in there.

Andrew: So, I need to focus on that. So, all it is about questions, and then having professional curiosity to dig in and say, "Okay, this is what the data's telling me. It's truth, I'm going to trust it. I'm going to trust the data over time, not one day, not one week, but data over time," and I'm going to say, "What should I try this time?" And treat it like the process. You have to enjoy the process of refining and selling on Amazon.

Andrew: And I just think it's amazing, Mina, we didn't really coordinate our exact slides, but we're talking about the exact same things, and we're talking about what most people see as, "This is a PPC advertising thing in its own silo, and this is a branding thing in its own silo," yet we're talking about the same methodology, and the way that we get to the answers and the refinement, and this is why some people are crushing on it Amazon, and some people, they're throwing something to the wall and hoping it sticks, and saying, "I don't know, but I-"

Mina: Amazon is dead.

Andrew: "...paid someone to do images. Exactly.

Mina: They're saying Amazon is dead, and I'm like, "Well, I don't know. Maybe it's the strategy." So, I quickly want to cover a few things. So, now that you're tracking everything, there's two modes really that we can live in, in terms of ads. I want to step away a little bit now from, okay, tracking conversion and all this stuff, but the two modes that we're going to live in, one is the cutting down your cost of ads, the other one is increasing profitable traffic. And those are the two ways that you can lower your cost per session, or increase your profit. Cutting cost, the only levers that you can pull are lowering the bits, pausing targets that are not working, adding negatives in auto, broad, and phrase for keywords that are maybe spending money, not making sales, or they have high ACoS.

Mina: Increasing profitable traffic, you can increase the bits to get a little bit more traction there. Increasing budgets, always an important one. If you have a high ROAS campaign, increase the budget. Bid by placement, if you're showing up well for top of search first page, the ROAS is good, the click-through rate is good, you can add a bid by placement adjustment saying, "Hey, I'm willing to spend up to X% more money if I'm going to show up here, because every time I do show up here, I convert well." Launching unique search terms, so identifying search terms in the search term report that are profitable, and also are not already being targeted, and launch them in their own campaigns. And then launching different placements, like sponsor brand, display, and video, and seeing if that can add additional unique sessions. Remember, the goal with ads is to get more sessions at a lower cost.

Mina: Next one. And then go through it in sort of a situational analysis. So basically, this is the case here where our ad spend went from 3,000 to 9,000, so we were in the scaling revenue mode. Our sales went up from 15,000 to 25,000 in that week. We're looking at conversion rates saying the same, we're looking at sessions went from 2,000 to 2,600, click-through rate increased as well, cost per click went down, and then overall, you can see that the profits went down significantly. So, this was a case where we wanted to get more sessions into the listing, but we didn't necessarily care about profit, but we did scale the revenue. So, now that we're at 25,000 a week, if we cut that 9,000 down to 5,000, we'll have another $4,000 in profit, which will take us from 3,000, to now having 5,000 in a week in profits. And so, that's kind of the way that we look at when we're tracking stuff, in terms of the ads.

Mina: Now, if you were to start testing stuff that Andrew was talking about, you would keep the ad spend the same, you would try and keep your sessions as much as possible the same, and then you would change something on the branding side, the conversion side, maybe the pricing and whatever as well, and then track that. You can always put a comment in these spreadsheets and say, "On January 23rd, I changed my main image. Let's see how it works," and then you can look and see, how did that unit session percentage change? How did that click-through rate change, and then what was the impact on profits at the end of day?

Mina: And you'll notice if it has a positive impact on conversion rate, all of a sudden, your ACoS is nicer, and your TACoS is nicer, and I'm like, "Wow." So, there's so many different things that can impact your ACoS and your TACoS, so it would not be nice to just look at ads, especially when it's like if you just look around, it's like the conversion is right there, right? They're so tied together, that you can just look at one or the other. So, let's go-

Andrew: Yeah, something to add here too is guys, this is complex, and that's why I'm like I love Amazon, because it's challenged me for 11 years. Mina's an engineer by trade, now he's a PPC expert, coach, speaker, brand owner, all of the things, I like to feel the same way, we're a lot of different things, but we've spent a ton of time trying to learn these things, because it's not easy. So, if you're expecting easy, I said expectation management in my slides, it's super important to understand that this is a marathon that you're learning over time, you're gaining a little bit of knowledge. You're like, "Okay, I want to learn this. I want to learn this." You have to take ownership of your own journey and your own brand, instead of just saying, "This is hard," you have to dig in, things like seasonality, things like price.

Andrew: One of the number one things we do is we have a brand saying, "I have to sell at $50, I have to sell wherever they are," we're like, "Let's run a two week deal, lowering our price." We lower the price, we see immediately that our sales are taking off. And so, I realized then that it's not, "Hey, my PPC's fine with these keywords and this traffic, I'm getting tons of sales. It's that my conversion rate is bad, or that the market simply won't command that price that they're asking for." Sometimes that's impossible. So, while we're talking about these things being the case, and he said sometimes you adjust price, well, adjusting price can make all of my PPC numbers look amazing if I get the right price point, right?

Andrew: So, it's all about focusing on, so then we're like, "Okay, we learned that we can sell a ton of these and my PPC is good when we lower the price, but I can't do that forever, because my profitability is low at that price point. Now what do I need to focus on? It's not my PPC, PPC's fine. Now what do I need to focus on? Is it supply chain? Is it manufacturing costs? Is it bundling?" The next set of questions come up, right? But it really, truly, all revolves around PPC giving us that data feedback to know what's working or what's not. There's nothing else on Amazon, in my opinion, that gives you that actionable feedback like PPC.

Andrew: So, if you're not spending there, if you're not testing, if you're not looking at that data, if it makes you insecure to even think about PPC and you're like, "I have, have to outsource this," and it just overwhelms you to think about the numbers and you're like, "I'm a creative person, not a math person," well, you can't run from data, and you have to figure that out, whether it's you, whether it's finding someone to help you. This is what tells you, this is the lifeline to your brand, and to selling on Amazon, or Facebook, whatever the case is. This is your lifeline, this is what's giving you that feedback.

Andrew: So, I wanted to add to that to just say that there's so many factors that come into play. Maybe you increased PPC at the wrong time of year, and we're in February, which we all know is a slow time for Amazon, and if you did the same thing in November, it would've exploded, or something like that. So, passing back to you, Mina, but just a little bit more flavor around all the things that we're thinking about when we're really just tracking these trends and trying to make decisions.

Mina: Exactly. We can skip this one, because I want to take some time for questions. Yeah. So, thanks, Andrew. I know you still have to answer what are the three things that we're going to start working on? And then we'll take a few questions.

Andrew: Colleen, how are we doing on time? Do we have time for some of that?

Colleen: Yeah. So, we're right at three o'clock, but we do have a few minutes for a couple questions. You can go ahead and skip to the next slide, where we have the special offers, so while we're answering questions, people can take a look at the special offers that we have here. Marknology is offering a free account audit, just email Andrew directly to request your audit. Trivium, Mina is also offering a free audit to identify different areas to improve, so you can come contact him through the website. And then FeedbackFive, we have a special offer for an extended 60 day free trial to help you get more reviews, since you can put a lot of money towards advertising, but if they go to your page, you have bad branding and you have negative reviews, then that's only going to hurt you, so you need those good reviews. All right. So Andrew, the three things. Do you want to start with you?

Andrew: Yeah. I'll just keep it really simple and actionable for anyone today, and nothing high level, but just really try to set yourself in a space. I think the first thing you should do is put yourself in a mindset to say, "I'm just going to be open and be not defensive about my listing, and I'm going to compare it to my competitors and then to some other listings." So, go find three listings across different categories or in your competitive market that you think are beautiful, that you think are doing a great job, and then realistically match yours up against that. I'm not going to tell you what to look at. You go find what you think is a beautiful listing, and realistically match yours up against that and say, "Hey, do I feel the same way about mine, as I do looking at this other brand's listing or their stuff?"

Andrew: The other one is consistency. So, the first one is go out there and do a little competitive analysis, and be realistic with your awareness about your own brand. The next one is evaluate the content on your PDP pages. Okay? So, what I mean by PDP is product display pages, these are your ASINs. Is there consistency between the different products that you have? Even if you have three, four, or five, is there consistency across them that if someone is it experiencing them on your Amazon, or on your website, or they go product to product, they're not feeling like every single product you're selling is a different product? And so, there's that cohesiveness.

Andrew: And then the last thing would be, don't do the bare minimum. If you've just thrown something into an A+ page, or you've just thrown five, six, seven images up, that doesn't mean that you're good to go. So, really look at those and say, "Hey, when I look at my images, without reading any of my bullet points or copy, do I understand what I'm selling?" It needs to be that simple. You need to be able to just look at the images, and from the value adds to the images, feel and emotion, and understand what you're selling, and then the copy, the SEO should just mirror that and confirm what you're seeing in the images.

Andrew: So, those are a couple tips that I'm just like anyone can do. It's about just being self-aware about your products, and I think a starting point is to know, "Hey, how do I match up with even what I think is good, and am I doing the bare basics or the bare minimum, at least, around conveying to someone that's never had me sit down and say, 'Hey, my product's amazing. It's going to clean all the mud off your shoes, and it's not going to leave a mess, and it's going to clean up after itself, and it's going to make your shoes shine?'" And it's like, is your product, if that's what you feel about your product and that's what you'd say to someone in person, are your images saying that same exact thing as if you were there telling them that? So, those are a little unique, maybe a little outside the box, but I think something that everyone can take home.

Colleen: Very good. And it looks like Mina's went ahead and answered a few of the questions here in the chat, so I think we just have one more. "When making adjustments such as bid changes, how much time should you allow before making any judgment or making a change?" So, Mina, you might be on mute, Mina.

Mina: All right. Yeah, there we go. So, there's honestly one answer, right? You need, at least, on average, to spend one target cost per acquisition, per keyword, before you say it's good or not good. And so, it's going to depend. So for me, let's say for MMA Nutrition, $10 a unit or a keyword, after that, I'm like, "Okay, I have to make a decision." So, every seven days usually, I'm getting that amount of spend across many, many, many different keywords, and so, I'm able to make a decision because if I spend any more than 10 and it doesn't convert, then that's like I'm just wasting money, right? Because it's already not profitable anymore.

Mina: But then in terms of keywords that are profitable, I need to also give it another amount of like five to 10, so it can spend and then convert, and then it has a good ACoS. So, the answer is figure out what's that cost per acquisition, and then figure out how long it's going to take for, on average, all of your keywords are spending that, and then if that's 14 days, do every 14 days, if it's seven, do seven, if you're spending a ton of money and it's three, do every three.

Colleen: Great. Well, a huge thank you to Andrew and Mina for joining us today. I saw a lot of comments in our chat that people are very appreciative, and they're all learning a lot from you both. So, thank you for joining, Andrew and Mina, and thanks to everybody else who attended today as well. We'll be sure to send out an email later tonight that will have this recording, as well as all the special offers and links, in case you want to watch it again, or have easier access to all the links that we mentioned today.

Mina: Awesome, thank you so much.

Andrew: And thank you eComEngine for hosting us and giving us this opportunity.

Mina: Yes.

Andrew: We appreciate you guys, we appreciate everyone that tuned in today. Thank you so much.

Mina: Thanks.

Colleen: Yeah.

Mina: Thanks, eComEngine.

Colleen: Awesome, awesome information. Thank you, we appreciate it. Take care.

Andrew: Bye.

Colleen: Bye, everybody.